Judge in training?

[Deadhead Peaches]

Actually, another layer one wouldn't hurt. Or just something complicated. Once I can get these down-pat (even though I love doing these), I'll need to go into the actual floor rules too...

But anything in general. I actually looked up Humility + Opalescence, and there's like this BIG paragraph... so I'm thinking not yet. But whatever you got is fine.

As a side note, I would appreciate if you could explain to me how Teferi and Suspend interact, because if it's on a creature, you can do it as an instant, and I'm not sure why.

[din]

I was playing with Jason last night with some crazy themed decks, and there was a point where a possible situation could have come up. I had a morph in play (Tribal Forcemage, though it could be any, I suppose) and I could have cast Bifurcate on it. I'm pretty sure I know the ruling on this, but would the copy come into play morphed or unmorphed, or would I have the choice? Also, if I played it morphed, I would have to reveal it when it came into play, right?

[Arix]

Again, I'll PM you the answer and let Peaches have a crack.

[KingofMyDream]

Here is two quizzes for the aspiring judge-to-be. (I am not a judge myself, but I KNOW some judges get things wrong as well.) I think I know the answer to the following, so don't need to whisper to me. but if peaches did answer, feel free to give him the answer without waiting for me.

1) Player A cast Riddle of Lightning on Player B's Ascote Bear (just something generic), Player B respond with Kor Drege, which resolves and redirects damage from RoL to Player A's Augur of Skulls. Player A begin scrying and put some card to bottom of his deck, then Player A tries to regenerate Augur of Skulls, is it a legal play?
2) If you flash in a scybe ranger with a Wild Pair in play, you trigger Wild Pair, can you find Allosaurous Riders assuming you have some lands in play.

[Deadhead Peaches]

@ Din: I don't even think you could find a copy, because Bifurcate will target a face-down 2/2 creature, and as far as I know, you can't find a copy of a creature*****.

If it was already face-up, then you would find a copy and put it face-up (if you chose to find one), because Morph is a... another way to play the creature, as in, they aren't supposed to come down that way.

(Man, my wordings suck.)

Ok, King... the first one is confusing, but if someone redirected my RoL, I would just put a land on top (problem solved!)... you can't use regeneration while a spell is resolving, but I'm almost sure there's a window that you can regenerate it in before it dies.

As for 2, if you flash a scryb ranger and trigger Wild Pair, you can find Allosaurus Riders even if you don't have any lands in play (it's just not very smart). Since a * on a card not in play is treated as 0, AR's P/T should be 0+1/0+1, and unless that equation doesn't get solved, you can find it.

Sorry if I sound over-confident, but... I have no idear. Hur hur.

EDIT: ***** creature that's face-down.

[Arix]

@ Din: I don't even think you could find a copy, because Bifurcate will target a face-down 2/2 creature, and as far as I know, you can't find a copy of a creature*****.

If it was already face-up, then you would find a copy and put it face-up (if you chose to find one), because Morph is a... another way to play the creature, as in, they aren't supposed to come down that way.

(Man, my wordings suck.)

You got this right, for the wrong reason. Bifurcate says to search your library for a creature card with the same name as target creature. Since face down creatures have no name, you won't be able to find a card with the same name as it.

Ok, King... the first one is confusing, but if someone redirected my RoL, I would just put a land on top (problem solved!)... you can't use regeneration while a spell is resolving, but I'm almost sure there's a window that you can regenerate it in before it dies.

Right. You can't play any spells or abilities (other than mana abilities) in the middle of another spell resolving. The "window" in which to regenerate your Augur as you say is any time before the Riddle resolves If you let the Riddle begin resolving, your Augur will die (assuming you reveal a card with CMC 1 or more).

As for 2, if you flash a scryb ranger and trigger Wild Pair, you can find Allosaurus Riders even if you don't have any lands in play (it's just not very smart). Since a * on a card not in play is treated as 0, AR's P/T should be 0+1/0+1, and unless that equation doesn't get solved, you can find it.

This would have been right a short while ago, but a fairly recent rules change has reversed it. Now, creatures with power and toughness setting abilities check them in every zone, just like colour-setting or creature type setting abilities, like the Kobolds or Mistform Ultimus. So an Allosaurus Rider in your library still has power and toughness equal to 1 plus the number of lands you control. If you have a Wild Pair and play a 3/3 with three creatures in your graveyard, you can now fetch Mortivore.

This would have been different is the Rider was a 1/1 creature with "~ gets +1/+1 for each land you control", which is an ability that only works in play.

[Deadhead Peaches]

1) I wasn't actually sure why, I thought, you know, face-down creatures can't exist in your library, but... whatever, lucky then.

2: ...was fairly simple, it's just kind of knowing when there are windows and such.

3: I was obviously familiar with the old ruling, where things like Serra Avatar were 0/0's in the library.... but I can see the reasons for the change. Lesson learned!

Thanks bunches for the help, this is pointing out where my weaknesses are, namely (I feel) in timing and new rulings. I'll get better, promise!

[Arix]

No worries, sometimes I get thrown out by new rulings as well. I gave a few incorrect rulings on Momentary Blink a few days after that changed.

[Deadhead Peaches]

FEED ME RULES! (PM's will work if this is naughty )

[Arix]

Here's a little question for you. Not a specific scenario, but more about the general rulebook - what's the difference between a state trigger and a normal trigger?

[KingofMyDream]

looks like dp's given up. for the rest of you, I will try answering it. highlight below to see the answer:
a trigger ability is one that "happen" on certain condition. usually beginning with "when", "if" or "whenever". a state trigger is different in that it triggers off the game state, e.g. you control no creature or 20 counters on a permanent. It won't retrigger again if a copy is already on the stack, but if the ability is removed (e.g. by stifle) and the condition is still true, it will trigger again. This is why you can respond to the state trigger of plague boiler (the destroy all creature artifactand enchantment trigger) with disenchant, they won't get to sac it and say boom.

[Arix]

Absolutely right, King. well done.

[Pita]

In the pre-release for FS, I had a game where I attacked someone with a Karstoderm. That person blocked with an Outrider En-Kor and moved the damage to another creature, then played Venser's Diffusion on the creature targeted for the damage.
Does Outrider En-Kor live?

[KingofMyDream]

to begin with, If you play Karstoderm in a pre-release fro FS, you should be DQed. Karstoderm is in Mirridin Block (can't remember which set). Caloderm is in Planar Chaos (which still shouldn't be in your FS pre-release. For redirection effect to happen (they are replacement effects by the way), both the source redirecting the damage and the source that is redirected the damage need to be in play when the damage would be dealt. So I think the redirection doesn't happen and Outrider En-Kor would die assuming your opponent:
1)let the redirection ability (the activated ability that set up the replacement effect) resolve.
2)try to bounce the other creature before the damage from caloderm resolve

If your opponent try to claim the redirection is a trigger or something, call a good judge.

[Arix]

Yep, all right there. When redirection effects take place, the object that the whatever (damage in this example) is being redirected to has to still be the same object, which includes being in the same zone. If it changes zones beforehand, the redirection effect doesn't apply.

[Pita]

Gah...
It was a Nessian Courser after I cast Tromp the Domains. Not a Kasrt/Calci/Derm
Sorry.
But thanks.
The judge had it wrong.

[frost_maze]

Even if Peaches won't answer to this thread any more, I've got an interesting scenario. And no, I don't actually know what should happen. I saw this at FNM the other night.

Player 1 has Flourishing defenses in play. Player 2 has a Blowfly infestation in play.

Player 1 plays Grim Poppet, generating 3 elf tokens. Then Player 2 plays scar on Grim Poppet. What happens?

[Arix]

Assuming no players do anything else, a -1/-1 counter will go on the Poppet, it'll die to state-based effects, and the ability of Flourishing Defences and Blowfly Infestation will go on the stack. Since Player 1 played the Poppet, I'm assuming it's Player 1's turn.

STACK: TOP
Blowfly Infestation
Flourishing Defences
BOTTOM

I guess Player 2 targets an Elf with the Infestation? Okay. So that ability resolves, puts a counter on an Elf. The Elf dies to state-based effects, both cards trigger again.

STACK: TOP
Blowfly Infestation
Flourishing Defences
Flourishing Defences
BOTTOM

This cycle will repeat until no more creatures die - no new Elves will be made for more counters to be put on, since the Defences's abilities won't resolve until the Infestation is finished.

[frost_maze]

So if a player controlled both blowfly infestation and flourishing defenses, would they be able to gain infinite life with a dross harvester (or other similiar "whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play" abilities) in play? Well... once you put a -1/-1 counter on something, causing it to go to the graveyard.

Or do the tokens disappear before it hits the graveyard?

[Arix]

That would be possible. Tokens go to the graveyard long enough to trigger any abilities like Dross Harvester before they cease to exist.